S2 Ep.27 Serialization in Self-publication with Brittany Wang
Serialization in Self-Publication - Transcript
[KARLI] Do you hear that?
[JAMIE] Is it the sound of decay?
[KARLI] [dramatic whisper] It's the sound of silence in my home? [Jamie and Karli chuckle] Actually, it's the song, Sound of Silence playing in my head. But you can't hear that only [laughing] me my other personalities can hear that
[JAMIE] A party in your brain, nobody is invited, but other versions of you.
[KARLI] Other versions of me and some of them aren't even invited either.
[JAMIE] [chuckles] I love dis-inviting myself to parties.
[KARLI] I mean, especially my own.
[INTRODUCTION MUSIC PLAYS]
[JAMIE] Welcome to The Act Break, where we're talking about all things story.
[KARLI] Take a break from your creative endeavors and hang out with us.
[JAMIE] Have a little simulated human interaction.
[KARLI] Because internet friends totally count.
[INTRO MUSIC FADES]
[KARLI] Welcome back to The Act Break podcast where we have the amazing opportunity to talk to yet again, another internet friend about story stuff. And other stuff, too, I think maybe. So that's very on brand for us as well. So, you know, yay us. [chuckles] I'm Karli. And I spent all my time preparing for other people. So I have nothing to say about myself. Except I'm Karli. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] Sure are. And I am Jamie. I am a speculative fiction and science fiction cross genre, author. Wow, it sounds so official when you say it that way.
[KARLI] Cross genre. Mmmm.
[JAMIE] It's funny how you could just say words, even if they're not [laughing] technically true.
[KARLI] I mean, that's, to me. That's technically true. So I don't know.
[JAMIE] Well, that's very sweet of you. I saw a commercial and it was like committed to more sustainable products. And also just because you say it doesn't make it true. [Karli laughs] That's a lot like my writing career. [laughs]
[KARLI] That sounds very relatable.
[JAMIE] Slowly crushing people's souls, but mostly just my own—
[BOTH] And destroying the planet.
[JAMIE] That's, that's what I'm doing.
[KARLI] [laughing]Okay.
[JAMIE] This is my villain origin story. [laughs]
[KARLI] [laughing] I tried to be a writer.
[JAMIE] You either lived long enough to become a published author or you die the villain..
[KARLI] Or you become a super villain. Yeah, I have a feeling I've already become a super villain. But it's fine. This is fine.
[JAMIE] [dramatic whisper] Everything is fine.
[KARLI] And today's internet friend is Britney Wang, author, YouTuber and website designer. Her book On Wings of Ash and Dust is out on her website in serial form and on Amazon. And you can also get it in a paperback which I have [whisper] sitting on my shelf. [normal voice] And it's so pretty.
[JAMIE] Welcome.
[KARLI] Thank you for joining us.
[BRITTANY] Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
[KARLI] Yay.
[JAMIE] So happy that you had the time to come and talk with us today.
[BRITTANY] Yeah, it's like one of the first things I'm doing as a new mom. That's not mom related.
[KARLI] Yay.
[BRITTANY] So yay. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] Author mom status.
[KARLI] Hashtag author moms. Yeah, no, that's awesome. I'm so glad that you were able to squeeze this in. I know it's challenging to like, get back into the swing of things after becoming a mom. So.
[BRITTANY] Definitely.
[KARLI] Good for you. Just like jumping right back in there.
[BRITTANY] Yeah.
[KARLI] All right. Would you like to take a minute to tell us about you, like about your creative journey, how you became what you are today?
[BRITTANY] Sure. Sounds so epic that way. Very simple. But yeah, a little about me. I mean, I just mentioned, I'm a new mom, I'm a wife. So outside of writing, those are like the main things right now. But as Karli said, I'm also a YA fantasy author of On Wings of Ash and dust. And you mentioned the YouTube channel. And I also created a couple of courses for writers. So I have my author website bootcamp, which teaches authors how to create an author website and newsletter that helps them grow their readership. And then I am coming out with one that should be out by the time this podcast goes live that is all about writing and publishing serialized fiction. So I'm really excited about like, those kinds of projects as well. But my creative journey I think, started as far back as I can remember, where it was really centralized more around music, but it was always a story when I was writing a song it like had a character and like a beginning, middle and end and how they transformed and so it was, it's really funny to like see, kind of where I've come. I did a lot of fanfiction, and like role playing games with friends and obviously did some of my own stories. But I personally didn't ever think—a young person and think—Oh, I'm going to be a published author someday, it was just a lot of fun. And I was like, okay, the the big leagues, [chuckles] the big people are gonna be able to do that. I'm just gonna enjoy writing. But in 2017, I was in a job that had a creative element, but was just kind of draining me. And I thought about how much fun I used to have fiction writing. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna finish something. [chuckles] For the first time I'm gonna finish a story. And I'm hearing a lot about self publishing. So I might even self publish, I might query it. I don't know, but I just I want to do it. And I got really excited because I made a bunch of writing friends on Instagram. Connected with an old friend from college too, that had already published and was talking to her a lot, learning a lot about the different industries and how to go about it. Started a YouTube channel where I was sharing my journey. And everything kind of snowballed from there of like, first querying and then going to self publishing. But that story that I started working on 2017 was a story I started writing about fairies in middle school that I pulled out, and was like, okay, this nugget in this nugget in this nugget is good. Let's work from there. And it is now the story that is published three years after I started that, and now it's my serial series and a novel and it's very exciting.
[JAMIE] That's awesome.
[KARLI] That is so cool. I love that.
[JAMIE] I love hearing people's journeys. I'm all tell me all about it.
[BRITTANY] Yeah, everybody's so different.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] Inspire me. Let me live vicariously through you.
[KARLI] I love it. I love it. That's great. I love the music thing where you said that, like it was always like a story beginning, middle and end. That's, that's really neat. Cool. So your journey, obviously, you saw people self publishing and all of that. So what led you to decide that that's what you wanted?
[BRITTANY] Yeah, well, for the beginning part of it, I was like, self publishing looks like a lot of work. [all chuckle] I don't know if i can do it well. And so I was pursuing traditional publishing. And I think, after a while, by the time I was like, ready to query and stuff, I just was seeing that the traditional publishing world was very slow, and very particular about what they were looking for. Then the sickness that shall not be named [Brittany and Karli laugh] hit the world, and everything slowed down even more. And I was just like, I don't know if I can wait any longer. Like, I want to do this well, I would like to have a team behind me, but it is time. Like, the story is ready. It just needs a developmental kind of editor to like, go through and help me clean up some things and a copy editor. And I'll be good. Like, let's go. So I actually took a course by Sarra Cannon. Publish and Thrive. And I felt like after I took that, I was like, wow, I feel like I have all the nuts and bolts and all the steps to like, do this fairly well. I had a few friends too, as you know, resources. And then I started really seeing people doing serialized fiction as well. So for anyone who doesn't know what serialized fiction, let me just start there. It's pretty much the same as a normal book series, except for two major differences. One, each book in the series, or what is called an episode is much shorter than a full length novel. And this makes the series faster to binge read. And number two, these episodes are usually rapid released to grow a readership fast and keep them engaged. So for example, instead of my readers waiting for a new book, maybe once or twice a year, I ended up releasing a new episode every two weeks, publishing my full series in just two and a half months. I also found this analogy to be super helpful in case it helps anybody if a typical book series is most like a movie series, so like Lord of the Rings has like that trilogy, right? That kind of mirrors the books. Then a serial series is most like a TV show, but in book form, where the overall story is broken up into shorter installments, like what TV producers have done with books like Shadow and Bone, Wheel of Time, Shannara Chronicles. And like a TV show, the key is that each episode though has its own mini story art with a beginning, middle and end, plus a cliffhanger leading into the next episode. So it's not just like taking your story and like divvying it up arbitrarily and putting it out there, you're making sure that each story is satisfying to the reader. And when they purchase it, they're like, okay, like, I know, this is continuing. But I am, I'm satisfied, and I'm excited for more.
[KARLI] That's awesome.
[JAMIE] I'm not surprised. This is what I expected from you. But like that is exactly how I would have also described it. That's the perfect analogy.
[BRITTANY] Yeah. And when I heard it explained like that, I was like, This is so for me, because, you know, they would come out faster. And I feel like it organically allows you to be more engaged with your readers, because they are anxiously anticipating. It's not like oh, I know a new book is going to come out in like six months or a year. It's like it's going to come out in two weeks. Readers are probably like, oh, what do you think's going to happen next. And so like that whole waiting for the next episode, and readers kind of building that like excitement and fandom. And me, I wanted to be available to my readers. Like I didn't just want to put out something and be like, hopefully they'll find me. And we'll get to talk about you know, the books later and like their theories or whatever, like I wanted to be like really engaged. So for me, I was like, I want to do live reader, you know, discussions and do activities, and like all kinds of stuff and like that was like a real draw for me because I wanted to be really engaged.
[KARLI] That makes sense. That's very you.
[BRITTANY] Yeah. [chuckles]
[KARLI] It makes so much sense to me. I'm like, yeah, yep, that's Britney.
[BRITTANY] Yeah! And I don't think every serial author loves to do that. But like, I saw the opportunity, and I was just like, I want to invest in my readers and like, hear from them. And I think it would be a lot of fun. And like, what you can do too, is like, typically each of these episodes is like that stepping stone to the overall story arc for like the season, right? And you can also like, have a cliffhanger at the end for multiple seasons. So there were like, so many different avenues I could take, as I was looking at my particular story, more and more, I was like, my story is perfect for this because it takes a main character who gets wrapped up in a competition for the faerie crown. And there are five parts of the competition that each take place in a different province, from a different clan.
[KARLI] So you had a natural progression of you're like, okay, well, this—yeah, that works out. Great. Awesome.
[BRITTANY] Right? Yeah. So the first, you know, episode is her how she gets wrapped up into it. And eventually, like, of her own volition, agrees to do it. And then the next five are the trials. And there's like, a lot more going on in the plot. But like, that was the structure for me of like, it's going to feel like a beginning, middle and end, because you see the arc of each of the trials at least.
[KARLI] Nice.
[JAMIE] Also, the serialization format, also has something to do with like your pacing, because like you were saying, like, there's that excitement, a reader has to like, come along to the next thing and not having to wait six months to a year in between one story and the next. It probably helps you feel like your story is like moving faster.
[KARLI] Yeah, I was gonna say the anticipation of the reader, I feel like is—it there's no, it kind of—there's kind of a die off where like, you are super excited when you read a book, and you're like, oh, that's so great. I can't wait for the next one. And then you find out yet, like, yeah, it's gonna be like, a whole year or whatever. And you're like, okay, well, I'm still excited. It's still like there in the back of your mind. But then you get on other things and distracted, and then when the other book comes back out, obviously, you get all excited again. But...
[JAMIE] Suck it Patrick Rothfuss. [all laugh] Sorry I—
[KARLI] Throw that in there.
[JAMIE] Eventually, you give up is the point. If it takes too long then people are gonna lose interest.
[KARLI] Then your excitement dies inside you. [laughing]
[BRITTANY] Mhmm. Or it's like all these other books come up.
[JAMIE] Yeah. And especially in the YA market. They're such voracious, like avid readers in the YA market that they are just wanting more and more.
[KARLI] So you already mentioned a couple, I think, in your explanation of serialization. But what are some of the greatest benefits to publishing a serial?
[BRITTANY] So I have eight, and I'll try to go through them not forever, [chuckles] so that this podcast doesn't end up being super long. But I think they're all really great and really important. The first one is that, it has the potential to improve your writing faster, I think, because these are shorter stories. And so you're writing completed stories over and over and over again, in a shorter amount of time. And I think with each one, you kind of up your craft, you're practicing story structure, you're practicing pacing, you're practicing character arcs. And hopefully, you're also getting feedback and learning from it with each episode. So I think if you're like really taking it kind of one episode at a time, really making sure that each one has its own arc, that is really a really cool benefit, just from a writing craft perspective. The other is that you can get proof of concept and netting interest for your story without having to write a complete, like full long novel, and then put it out there and nobody be interested. So I mean, in the course, I talk about a couple of different approaches of like, do you put out a couple of episodes and then hold some back? Do you like—while you're working on some or do you complete all of them, and then put them out. But if you go the route of, you know, putting out a couple and kind of testing the waters, or putting out one episode for free to see what people think, then you can kind of test your idea. See how much interest there is before you invest so much in something that maybe never takes off. Another one is some benefits with a professional editor or cover designer. So with an editor, what I had is I basically had a full length novel, and I did split it up. But I went through and had my editor help me make sure that each episode felt satisfying and had that full arc. And I only had to pay her for a full novel. But I ended up being a published author of a six book finished series. And so now I have a back list even though I only technically wrote one full length novel, if that makes sense.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[BRITTANY] So I actually like I spent less than I would have if I was, you know, publishing a full series, but still had that professional editor experience. And I maybe wouldn't do it with a developmental editor. But with a copy editor like if you didn't like—if you only gave your first episode to a copy editor and you didn't like that editor, you could give your second episode to a different copy editor and you actually figure out which editors you really like to work with and, and you work with them going forward.
[JAMIE] So you're not like committed for like a whole novel, because you're like, well, I already paid this person. And technically they're kind of doing what I want, but...
[KARLI] But not really. [chuckles]
[BRITTANY] Right, exactly. And I guess you could kind of do it with a developmental editor to like giving them Episode One, seeing what they do with it. And then you'd have to like, kind of go back to episode one with a different developmental editor, just so that they have the context. But anyway, um, cover design, though, is kind of a tricky one, because you do end up kind of maybe spending more, because a lot of people like to like buy multiple covers at once. But you can usually get a discount for buying multiple covers at once. So if you knew that you were going to do a series anyway, you're going to be spending that money anyway. But if you are already set up with all of your episodes, and you know how many covers you want, yeah, you can get like a bundle, which is really cool.
[KARLI] Nice.
[BRITTANY] You can also potentially get published faster. Again, if you have a finished novel, and you do figure out how to like, kind of work it out where you want to separate it into episodes well, then you can start getting episode one out theren while you're kind of proofreading episode two, and kind of getting movement forward. You can also end up getting a backlist faster. And then another benefit is you quickly develop a publishing and marketing process. So again, you're not just doing all of that stuff with one book, but you do it again. And again. And again. And again.
[KARLI] Quick practice.
[BRITTANY] Yes, yes. And you kind of figure out like, Okay, this works for me, and this doesn't. And so by the second or third or fourth episode, you're like, Okay, I know what works for me. And this is what I want to do going forward.
[JAMIE] Yeah, as writers a lot of times, especially when we're in the beginning, we think, Okay, well, I have to figure out how to do this right. I feel like as you move forward, there's an evolution where you have the opportunity to be like, okay, I did these things last time, they didn't work for me, I'm gonna do these things different in the future. And that's like, when you're starting out, you feel like, oh, I screwed up. I messed it up. But you're like, no, everybody does that. And then they have to, like, learn going forward, even how we did like this podcast.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] You have to do it wrong. To figure out a better way. [chuckles]
[KARLI] You have to start somewhere. Yeah, I mean, and I think with what what it sounds like is coming through with the serialization is it's just like, just rip the band aid off, get stuff out there. Get your practice in, keep trying and like, yeah, sure, some things will probably be more successful than others. But like, that's, that's how we learn. It's how we grow. And it's how we get better.
[BRITTANY] Definitely. Yeah, yeah.
[JAMIE] And you can learn things very quickly, like you said, because it's like you're rapidly doing it. If I publish one book. And then two years from now, I finally publish my next book. I'm not going to learn as many lessons as somebody who's been serial publishing other things.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] They've evolved quicker.
[BRITTANY] Sure, yeah. No, you're definitely learning a ton. And then you also have an organic way of promoting the series, again, and again and again. So even if you feel like you didn't do so great with the first episode, you learn some things. Yeah, two, three, four weeks later, you put the second one out. And I basically tell people that what you need to do is, you're promoting the second one to the readers who have already read the first one. But you also have the opportunity to then go back to all new readers that haven't heard about it and be like, Okay, here's episode one. So if you didn't pitch episode one, the best that you could have the first time, you work on it for that second time. And you're like, oh, wait, it's when I share these tropes, or when I like, share this aspect of the story, that's what gets people to buy. And then when the third episode gets out, you're like, okay, now I got my groove. Here we go, you know.
[KARLI] Nice. That's cool. I hadn't thought about it like that. But that makes so much sense.
[BRITTANY] Yeah, I mean, there's the opportunity to do it, you know.
[JAMIE] Yeah, 'cause even in traditional publishing, they re-market books.
[KARLI] All the time, rebranding.
[JAMIE] All the time. New covers—
[KARLI] Oh, yeah.
[JAMIE] Rebranding, re-marketing.
[KARLI] It's a totally natural and normal thing in the, I mean, in most industries, but in the publishing industry, and like, you're just, you're learning how to do it in really quick succession.
[BRITTANY] Right. Kind of truncating the process.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] I cut you off in the middle of your eight.
[BRITTANY] Yeah, I just got like two more. Oh, no, three more. So the next one is you can build reader momentum and engagement. That's what I was talking about before. And that's what I was really excited about. Like I said, you can be rapidly releasing, which can mean a bunch of different things. So for example, like I did every two weeks, but some people do like once a month or once every couple of months. So it doesn't have to be like, oh my gosh, I need to do every two weeks because honestly, that was a lot. [all chuckle] It was it was effective, but it was a lot. The idea is to have consistency and to grow engagement as you go. You can also potentially get reviews faster, potentially, because people are reading them faster. Actually completing reading the story. I don't can't tell you how many books I started reading and just never finished reading. So I never reviewed. But if I read something shorter, it's like, okay, it's fresh. You know, I got it done. And oh, it's they're asking me to review. I can do that. You know, the last one I'll just say is, you have the potential to have multiple products to sell, not just one novel, and to even upsell. So for example, you don't have to just write serials, you can write a serial like spin off of your main series that kind of gets people back into the world as you're working on the sequel, you know, stuff like that. So you can partner it with larger fiction. And for me, one benefit I saw is, I released ebooks first only because they were getting rapid relea—that word is hard—[all chuckle] rapidly released. And, and so like if people are getting paperbacks like they could be getting them in the mail, by the time the next episode came out, so that wasn't going to work. So I was like, we're just gonna do ebooks, a lot simpler. And then I came out with a wrap-up, a bind up of all the episodes as a paperback, a few months leader, and I actually had some people, they had purchased the ebooks, and now they purchased the paperback because they want it on their shelf, and they want to reread it. And so I got like double sales by some readers, you know. And so there's the potential for that.
[KARLI] Yeah, that's cool. I, because I wound up I got the ebook of the first one. And then I had a bunch of life stuff come up, and I couldn't keep up. So then I was like, oh, man, I need to go back. And then you announced that you were doing the paperback and I am a very, like, I would rather have the physical copy girl anyway. So I was like, oh my gosh, yay, so then I got to get the—so I liked that you did it both ways.
[BRITTANY] Thank you.
[JAMIE] It's, it drives me nuts when I can't get a paperback of something.
[BRITTANY] I know. And it was, honestly, it was a sanity thing because I was just like, I don't think I can do both for all six. And plus, they're like skinny-minis. Some people still asked for them. So like, I'm actually kind of thinking about now like, maybe I do them.
[JAMIE] Yeah. Since you have the art.
[BRITTANY] Yeah, right. You know, like, why not? It's not that much more to like, create a cover. And then it could potentially get more sales because people want like the full collection of mini stories. So like, okay.
[KARLI] Absolutely. If you have the requests coming in anyways, and the readership and yeah, people like to have things—I mean, I as a as a, as a book collector, you know—I like to have things where it's like, well, I mean, it's a series I'd like to have, you know, the series, but if there's like a compendium then I want the compendium too and like, you know, so...
[BRITTANY] Yeah.
[KARLI] Makes a lot of sense. Cool.
[BRITTANY] Multiple products.
[JAMIE] Right. Revenue Streams.
[BRITTANY] Yeah.
[KARLI] Make that paper. [Brittany chuckles] Love it. Okay. So, you know, we talked a lot about the good stuff, but what about challenges? What are some of the challenges that you have encountered along the way with publishing serials?
[BRITTANY] Yeah, definitely not as well known of a format. So there are like six main hurdles, I think I found, but I was able to, like, kind of overcome them in certain ways. So I'm gonna share a little bit about that, too. But the first big one was serial education, like, people were like, wait, serial killer? [Karli laughs] Like cereal, like I eat in the in the morning? Like, what is this serial? And I'm like, no, no. So I kind of had to, and that was part of like, my pitch too, of like, this is what a serial is, and kind of marketing it. As you know, everybody loves TV shows, right? You love when, like, new stuff is coming out on a frequent basis, you get to engage with me as it's coming out. So I got, kind of overcame that by sharing it. Doing a video about it, doing posts about it, answering questions about it. But that was definitely like a thing of like, you know, usually people are like, here's my novel, and people are like, I go buy, you know,[Karli chuckles] like, here's my serial series. Wait, before I buy, what is that?
[KARLI] Yeah, having to educate your audience in order for them to get drawn in, instead of just being like, I did this thing, and then people not understanding it. So then they don't go for it, because they don't understand it. And there's so much out there. So it's like, why, why go for the thing that you don't understand when you can understand this? Yeah, that could definitely be a struggle.
[BRITTANY] Yeah. Especially with readers that don't have direct engagement with me that just find the books too. You know, I had to figure out like, on the sales page, like, what do I say, that kind of explains. Because they can see the page count and stuff? Like, why is it shorter? You know, like, what, what is this? You know, so I looked at some serial authors and like, kind of some copy that they used, you know, to kind of explain it, I was like, oh, that makes sense. Okay, can I, you know, kind of rephrase this a little bit and use that as well. And so like figuring out how to say that and then being like, here are the benefits. So the second hurdle was that they were shorter books. And that's not everybody's favorite, but I really drove home like, hey, they're gonna come out quickly. So you're gonna get a new book quickly. And if you'd like to rack up how many books you read in a year, [Karli laughs] like your Goodreads list or whatever, hey, you're gonna read like a novel length thing that you're gonna get to tick off like six books. [Jamie and Karli chuckle] So different things like that you can really like kind of pull out I also had only ebooks only to start, right? So I had to explain why only ebooks kind of said that before of like if I did paperback too, like they wouldn't be able to keep up with the reading pace. And—but I did promise that paperback bind up later, which obviously that worked on Karli. [Karli chuckles] And a month later again, I got to put up that paper Back and re-market the whole series all over again. So not only did I sell paperback versions, but I sold the ebook series as well, because there were people that hadn't heard of it the first time around. Then there was pricing. So that was a hurdle of like, okay, these are shorter books, they, you know, in my mind, I'm like, I should price them a cheaper price. But you know, a lot of books nowadays are being priced, especially like ebooks, like $3.99, $4.99, $5.99. Like those are actually more typical now. So like a $2.99 book is actually feasible, I think, for shorter books. And I really haven't gotten any complaints from readers because each story really has its own arc and feels full, even though it is a shorter read. And so I've kind of kept it there. And at that $2.99 mark, you still make I think it's 70 or—70 or 75% of the royalty and if it's under that, you make like 35%. So um...
[KARLI] They really want you to charge that, or more. [Brittany and Karli chuckle]
[BRITTANY] Exactly. So that was kind of my pricing strategy to get through that. The other hurdle I said before is paying for multiple book covers. So that's maybe you know, a heftier kind of price upfront, but you can get a deal. And I found an illustrator, who was able to give me a very reasonable price for all the illustrations. Then I did the typography myself. So that was where I kind of saved money there. And again, I only purchased ebook covers, I didn't have to purchase paperback wraps, which usually authors do at the same time. And I only had to purchase one paperback wrap for the full bind up, at least initially. So different, different things to consider. And I think the last thing I'll say that was a hurdle is just rapid release burnout is definitely a thing. And even though I had the full series, developmentally edited, copy edited, I was still doing some proofreading or having other people proofread. As the episodes were coming out just to like—I thought it was going to be these little like tweaks here and there. And most of it was, but there were some scenes where people like found something that was like, you know, this should really get fixed or clarified or whatever. And I'm like here, like, I just want to market the books and like, I'm going in, and I'm not just fixing, like spelling errors. I'm like fixing some other things, I was really glad that they caught. So I would say that if you're going to try this, I personally think that you know, you want to have everything done, done, done, before you start [chuckles] publishing or have longer periods between releases.
[KARLI] So you have that time though, that makes so much sense. That was my biggest when thinking about how it would feel for me, I think that's my biggest like, oof that would be so rough is the pacing of it and the timing and making sure that everything is set up. So that you're not, like you were saying, in the midst of things. 'Cause I did beta reading for my story one time that I was not finished editing when I started releasing the beta stuff, and then I thought it'll be fine, I'll be able to finish. And then it got down to crunch time at the end and I had fallen behind. And it was so overwhelming, I could imagine that feeling [chuckles] all over again. And it just does not sound fun. So it would definitely require a lot of organization to stay on top of that, so that you don't fall behind. [chuckles]
[BRITTANY] Definitely. And it was like I had already promised like a release schedule, you know, and I had already started putting pre-orders up and like all this stuff. So it's like I have to deliver on this.
[JAMIE] The train has left the station. We're going. For good or ill, this is happening. [all chuckle]
[KARLI] It’s one thing to tell beta readers, it's going to be another week. It's quite another to have marketed a release, and then be like, oh my God.
[BRITTANY] Yes, yeah. So there were a couple of times where it was like, I was just fixing little things, but I was still fixing the document before uploading it. Like just a couple of days before it was supposed to release. And I was like, I can't I can't handle this. So I would definitely put more space between releases, if possible, or just make sure you have everything, everything done. And that's kind of something I talk in the course too, to my students, of like, give yourself more time than you think. Even if you're releasing a book, a new book, like every two or three months, like that's so fast, so in comparison to like, you know, traditional books, you know, some some indie authors are like, you know, they're getting out a book, like, still every couple of weeks somehow, but um...
[KARLI] I feel like that's the—I mean, that's very fast to me, but indie seems to have a better handle on releasing more rapidly than traditional which, for I think obvious reasons, but that gives you the freedom to be able to adjust and either go a little faster or a little slower based on what you need in that season of life.
[BRITTANY] Definitely.
[JAMIE] So now you're just getting back from, you know, having a baby and becoming a mom. I can't imagine.
[BRITTANY] I couldn't either. [Karli laughs]
[JAMIE] So you're getting back into your professional life back in the saddle again, you have the course coming out, what else have you been up to?
[BRITTANY] Yeah. So I obviously want to get back to writing, that's a huge thing. You know, it came out rapidly releasing the first season. And now it's like, been a year actually, about since like the first episode started releasing. So I want to keep the momentum going. But obviously, [chuckles] it's gonna take me a little bit. I have a outline for four books, four short books, that will be part of the second season. And in my mind, that means storyline will be over at that time, I might do some side stories, potentially. But I would love for those shorter stories to be a little bit longer than the other ones, because there were six in the last one. So four for this one. And then for them to be rapidly released as well. But maybe once a month, or something like that. And to try that, try that out. And I think it'd be fun too to like, compare it. And to go back to my students too and be like, hey, like this was, I mean, it's with a sequel season. So it is going to be different than like, you know, coming out with a brand new one. But I feel like I'll learn a lot that I can share with my students and like kind of use going forward.
[KARLI] For sure.
[JAMIE] And that's awesome, too. Because then you have sell through on the original series once again.
[BRITTANY] Yes. Talk about the original series, and people can get in on that. And it won't take them that long to get through that in order to then join us for the second one.
[KARLI] Yeah, so I was going to ask if I was in the same universe. It's—so this—the first season, it's complete On Wings of Ash and Dust like that arc is complete and your—is it new characters? Or is that something you don't want to talk about yet?
[BRITTANY] Sure. So I'll just say that the the first of the the physical paperback novel that you have with the six episodes, it ends, completing the competition that goes into a new level of the story. So there's a lot of like, under the story kind of things: mystery and like a subplot kind of going on as the competition is happening, that becomes very important by the end. Competition wraps up, that's kind of wrapped up in there. And then it leads into okay, season two is going to be like this bigger thing that I'm not gonna spoil.
[KARLI] That makes me—that makes me very excited.
[BRITTANY] Good. Yeah.
[JAMIE] It's very much like a sequel.
[BRITTANY] So it'll be the same characters, but they'll be kind of going through the next level of their arc with the next progression of the story.
[JAMIE] Ultimately, when it's finished, it will be like a duology.
[BRITTANY] Yes, yes.
[KARLI] Cool.
[BRITTANY] That is that is the vision. And of course you make plans, and then your characters kill the plan. [Karli laughs] So we'll see. [laughs] We'll see if it actually works out.
[KARLI] As of now. That's the tentative plan. I see it. Okay. Very cool. That's exciting. You have an outline, and you're trying to work your way back into a writing routine, so that you can get going on that. Is that what I heard?
[BRITTANY] Yes, yep. And so like Preptober is coming up, NaNoWriMo. Like, you know, the big dream is to be able to kind of get back to my outline; and make a more solidified kind of, you know, fast drafting plan, and then hit NaNoWriMo and try to get out as much of the first draft as possible. The other thing though, is that before I was turning this into a serial series, I was like, okay, like, let's trad-pub this story. And write a different story that is a serial series that I can kind of become a hybrid author. And this is a story that I like, so want to get back to as well. So I'm like, yay, I'm new mom with so much less time and I have two stories I want to work on. [all chuckle] But this one, just to tell a little bit about it. Because really fun is called “Sisters of the Shadow Wood.” And it's about three magical handmaidens who steal magical knowledge from the rich to give to the poor. So it's like this Robin Hood, kind of vibe. But they're also like kind of undercover. And these characters are each inspired by a different fairytale character. So Red Riding Hood, Cinderella's fairy godmother, and a female Robin Hood. And really great for readers who love the TV show Once Upon a Time, because it's not just them who have magical abilities and kind of emulate different fairy tale characters, but it's like their whole town has kind of been infused with magic. And the town is now figuring out like, okay, how do we deal with this?
[KARLI] Fun.
[JAMIE] Awesome.
[KARLI] So you have a lot, you have a lot on the horizon. That's very exciting.
[BRITTANY] Too much. [all laugh]
[JAMIE] Preach.
[KARLI] Yeah, I feel like that's like the creative struggle; where you're like, I have all of these ideas and like, what a great problem to I have. But then you still have to actually find the time to do the things. So.
[BRITTANY] Right. And everybody's like, routine is great. And like just my son. He has no routine.
[KARLI] Oh, yeah. Routine? What is routine? How old—how old? Is he now? Just a couple of months?
[BRITTANY] Yeah, he's just about three months and he's wonderful just has no you know, predictable nap schedule or anything. So I'm just like, and I thrive on routine.
[KARLI] Right? Once you get one, it'll change again. So, yeah, that's always fun.
[JAMIE] Enjoy the next 18 years of your life. [all laugh]
[BRITTANY] No one warned me. No, I'm just kidding.
[KARLI] So do you have a Two-cent recommendation for us today? A recommendation, we call it the Two-cent recommendation if you hadn't gotten that far in the podcast.
[BRITTANY] So I think I'm going to recommend a fast drafting course because NaNoWriMo is coming up. Why not? Actually Jessica Brody, who wrote Save the Cat Writes a Novel, she has her Writing Mastery Academy, where you pay like, I don't know, like $12 a month or something, you get access to all of her courses and all the webinars and all that stuff. One of the courses is a fast drafting course. And I think it's brilliant. And I'm super excited to implement it going forward. And she also has a revision course that I haven't given myself permission to get into until I'm at that stage of even though I really want to go through it. But if you're looking for something to like, give you practical things to like, really just get through a fast draft. I just think it's really good.
[KARLI] I could probably use that right now, too. So.
[JAMIE] Cool. Yeah, it's pretty exciting. Everybody knows us writers. The leaves change in them. We all are like: [chanting with increased volume as she goes] NaNoWriMo. NaNoWriMo! [all laugh]
[KARLI] Yeah, the leaves don't even really have to change. I'm just like, oh, it's actually crisp this morning.
[JAMIE] It must be time to write another frickin' novel. [Brittany laughs]
[KARLI] Time for pumpkins and novels. [chuckles]
[BRITTANY] Yes. Pumpkin Spice Latte, please.
[KARLI] I don't really like those.
[BRITTANY] [gasps] You don't?
[JAMIE] Get outta here!
[KARLI] [laughing] I know, right? I don't like pumpkin in coffee. I like it in tea.
[JAMIE] Oh, I hate pumpkin in tea. [Brittany and Karli laugh] Ugh, why would you ruin perfectly good tea?
[KARLI] Black tea with pumpkin and a little bit of like milk. Mmm. Delicious.
[BRITTANY] Yes.
[KARLI] Espresso. No thanks. Okay, you can find Brittany at her website and across all social media platforms, YouTube, etc. At Author Britney Wang. Her book, On Wings of Ash and Dust, can be found on Amazon. If you have the Kindle Unlimited—which I do and I have it on my phone—you can get it for free right now. It's very exciting. Brittany also has her Serial Fiction Boot Camp out right now available through her website. You can go check that out all the details are there. And Brittany, do you want to tell people about the challenge?
[BRITTANY] Yes. So if you jump in the course, right now, we are in Preptober, right? We are going to be doing a Preptober, plot your serial challenge, where I'm going through the course with my students in a discord group. And we are chatting through the material and also helping each other, as not only my students, but also me finish plotting our serials so we can be ready for NaNoWriMo. So if you need that extra incentive and community and encouragement, obviously you can purchase the course at any time and go through it at your own pace. But if you want a community behind you this time around for NaNoWriMo, definitely get in as soon as you can.
[JAMIE] Awesome. A lot has changed in the last six years. But I feel like what hasn't changed is, as writers we're all down here in the mud together. Like it's very much like we're all going through it. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Yeah. Let's slog together.
[JAMIE] And it'd be cool to have that community built up.
[KARLI] Definitely. And you have a Discord linked into that.
[BRITTANY] Yeah.
[KARLI] That would be a big draw for me that like being able to actually like chat with people in the discord is huge.
[BRITTANY] Yes. And the Discord is available all the time, no matter when you join. But I feel like it will be especially active during Preptober.
[KARLI] Probably Preptober. And NaNo, like you'll have a ton of people talking, that'll be great.
[JAMIE] That's awesome. A lot of people who are always like, how do you build that community? And there—there you go. There's a great way.
[BRITTANY] Right? And then as people publish their serials, it's a great place to to like network and be like, oh, we write the same genre. We come up with serials in the same genre, like, let’s, you know, do something together.
[KARLI] Yeah, ask questions and do things together, absolutely. Very cool. Thank you so much for joining us. We had a great time asking you all of these questions. Thank you for all of the info and a great chat.
[JAMIE] Thanks, Brittany.
[BRITTANY] Thank you. So much fun.
[KARLI] Thanks again for listening, internet friends. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter. Our links for our social media and our website are found in the description of this episode. We've got a newsletter that comes out at some point eventually again, and that's all folks. [Brittany laughs]
[JAMIE] Talk to you later, internet friends.
[KARLI] Bye.